CO – Attila, please tell us something about you, as a photographer. For instance, when have you begun photographing?
AS – Ever since the 5th grade. My parents have visited the former URSS and asked me what I wanted them to bring me. So I replied I wanted a photo camera, with a metallic, silver lens. So I received a Cmena 8.
We had a very good family friend that was also a good photographer. In the 70’s and 80’s, he used to photograph, process films, both in black and white and color. And I used to mimic his behavior, by doing with my hands what he used to do with the camera, as if I were taking pictures. And years later, when I finally received my camera, I actually began taking photos. I often joke with saying that I regressed, because I now need a camera to do what I could do back then with my bear hands and imagination, of course.
CO – Does your passion for photography have anything to do with someone in your family? Your parents, for example, were also passionate about photography?
AS – No, not at all. I have had no influence from my parents. I was simply passionate with it and learned myself. I remember one particular moment, a while after I began, that I found out my grandmother’s name – Képíró. Which means “image writer”. Hence the name of the association that I cofounded (ERKE – Transylvania Light Painters Association). Back in the old days you could see those “light writers”. They were the ones to do the large paintings and “commercials”, for firms, kings and battles. Quite similar to the war photo reporters. Such as Robert Kapa.
The idea is that I found a connection between my grandma’s name and my purpose, connection that pleased me. I always had a problem with finding the best term for “photographer” in Hungarian. Plus, after seeing the work of many of the so called “artist photographers”, I preferred to be called different. So, when I found about the name Képíró, I decided that that’s how I want to refer to myself as a photographer – “image writer”.
CO – Do you think you have a particular style in photography? Meaning, do you like a specific style? Such as fashion, or commercial?
AS – No, I couldn’t say that. I simply like photography. And I think this is a bit contrary to the tradition. Usually, photographers are specialized on a particular theme. Like “I don’t like this style in photography, I only like a particular type…”. Sure enough, I have my preferences in photography, yet when I have to take pictures, I take pictures. It is not the theme that I like, it is photography. And this is always a challenge.
CO – Meaning?…
AS – For example, my experience with Elite Magazine. It was not easy from the beginning. I started with a photo, a first “assignment”, after came a new one and so on. And afterwards I received the task of taking the cover photo. And in time I became more and more satisfied with the results. I even had to take food photographs. And the result was very pleasing, without comparing my self with professional photographers with 30 years of experience in food photography. Still, I was very content with the results.
I have never had a support in photography. My parents could not help me, I did not know anyone in Cluj, nor in Budapest. So I had to make it on my own and prove that I can do it. That is why photography was always a challenge for me. I always had to prove what I knew and can do.
CO – Did you learn photography in college or all alone, through practice?
AS – All alone. Although I thought about enrolling into a college in Budapest, I preferred to learn on my own. I did make a search to see who is teaching, what is teaching and whether I need that info or not. Or if I could benefit from those classes. Because I do not need any papers to say that I can take photographs or not. And when I saw what they were teaching there and the so called “artist” photographers they prepare, I decided it was not for me. I was always self taught, and I prefer clear and practical things, without too many stories. I even had a funny event with and “artist” photographer that rented my studio for an assignment, but the client was not at all pleased with the result. And afterwards, he asked me to help him with the lights, as he wanted to learn from me. So I replied that I can not help him, since he is only months away from graduating, with a diploma as an “artist” photographer. And I had no diploma. “You want to learn from me?” I replied. “What are they teaching you in the university?” And all this convinced me that I don’t need any college to make good photographs.
CO – So this persuaded you ?
AS – Yes, once in for all! Don’t get me wrong. There are interesting (and probably useful) things to be learned in a formal education. Still, the job as a photographer, or how to do a portrait, a commercial photo or a wedding album is not something you learn there. Art is important, even necessary. Yet not sufficient for this job.
CO – You said you worked in Budapest, Hungary, in New York, SUA and in Romania. Are there significant differences in terms of the way that photography in general and commercial photography, in particular, are both seen?
AS – Yes. For instance, in Bucharest I’ve met some really good photographers, that are already at a high level, in terms of results. Compared to Romania, in Hungary things are more centralized. Everything about photography takes place around Budapest, where there are photographers with wide views, that have visited lots of countries and seen many different approaches and visions. In Romania, you meet photographers all over the country. Yet very few outside Bucharest are really good. And what is to be noticed in Romania, especially outside Bucharest, is a huge lack of visual culture.
CO – This lack of culture you mention, can be seen in clients as well ? When a client comes and asks you to do a certain photo project…
AS – Yes, absolutely ! For example, I’ve had a client that, although is on the market for more that 10 years, willing to reshape his image, decided for a combination of two competitors. They visited me at the studio and showed me what they thought about – a combination of two competitors, in terms of the image. In other words, I replied, “you didn’t think!”
So I suggested a different approach, so they don’t try to copy what others do, because they are no match. Instead, to try to approach a clear group target, a specific one. And according to this, to present an image of someone that anyone from the group target can identify itself with.
CO – Do you often do this kind of advising?
AS – Yes, it’s been quite often for me to advise my customers, even beyond photography, but still concerning their image. This is because I’m passionate, parallel to photography, about the psychology of advertising. Unlike mass production, in photography the result is not clear from the beginning. The client signs a contract, yet it’s not 100% sure of the result. I like the following approach. The client gives me a brief description of what he/she desires and then gives me complete freedom for photographing and being creative. And after, I come back with an intermediary result and, if the client is pleased, we have a talk and decide whether to continue the collaboration. And only after that we discuss the contract and other details.
CO – So you prefer to take the first step and give something to the client?
AS – That’s correct! That happened with a client from Budapest, Herend. Herend (http://www.herend.com) is the second large manufacturer from Hungary, after Meissen. I met them and they told me what they wanted and asked what the price was for that job. I began by telling the CEO that I never photographed their kind of products – porcelain. Obviously, the CEO was very surprised, as he wanted to see a portfolio. I asked him whether he wanted to see a portfolio with models, without any connection with their products. So I suggested him to give me some of their products, give me a couple days to photograph them as I envisioned them and give them some images to choose from. If he liked them, ok, if not, the same. No costs for him!
CO – Did he agree?
AS – Yes, he said he liked this approach. And that he finds it fair, especially that nowadays nobody’s working “for free” anymore. I told him that it wasn’t about “for free” or “for charge”, it was only what I thought it was fair.
CO – Same as a job interview, with a trial period. If you can handle the job, you’re hired. If not, no problem.
AS – Exactly ! And after that, he gave me a very « interesting » porcelain bowl to photograph.
CO – That you had to portray highly attractive…
AS – I went with that CEO to Vienna and scouted for a photo location, an entire day. We sought an interior location. He spent an entire day telling me how the photos should look. That the white has to be white, not gray or any other nuance. Pure white. That the golden from the bowl has to be golden, not yellow or anything else. Besides, they had lots of colors on their porcelain, colors that didn’t exist. Colors that had no code. Because they were produced in their labs, by combining many colors and nuances. And the bowl also had lots of flowers and butterflies, all personalized.
It took me more than two days before I began taking any pictures. Eventually, I took the photo for the bowl almost in black and white, on a large film. That bowl was so loaded with information, that I felt the need to simplify things. Simple and almost black and white. Therefore, I showed that picture to the CEO.
CO – And?… Any reactions?…
AS – Long story short, he liked it! He looked at the photo and, very surprised, told me that I didn’t do anything from what he told me for an entire day. But he liked it. A lot. And that he never thought that it could be photographed that way. And he likes it. So we went straight to the marketing department and told the ladies working there that, from that day on, I would be the one taking the photographs for Herend and that no one will give me any instructions. So I had complete freedom to take the pictures as I saw fit. Anything I shoot, they will buy. And the photo with the bowl was sent right away to the International Exhibition held that year in Frankfurt. And for one and a half years we worked together. Of course, this only happens rarely. But it does happen. Not all clients are so open minded. Probably this CEO traveled a lot and had the chance to see things in different perspectives. He understood that the simple fact that he was the owner or CEO and he was paying, did not make him good at photography or building an image.
CO – Have you also made compromises?
AS – Of course. Like everyone else. There have been moments when I made compromises, although lately I decided not to do them anymore. I recently visited a wedding fair, where I’ve been asked if I was interested in taking pictures for weddings. A young lady asked me what would the photo package include. So I replied that I do not offer any package, but I can give her 10 great photographs, printed on photographic paper, in high size, as well as a CD with the rest of the photos I would take. But I don’t take 700 or 1000 photos, I don’t attend the entire event (church, party, where everyone is drunk and falling between the tables). I don’t do this and it’s my decision. I rather take a couple of great photographs that the bride and groom will always remember, than hundreds or thousands of photos that they’ll never look at. Otherwise, I prefer not getting involved at all. I might not even have any requests, but that’s not a problem. I prefer things this way. Because, for most of the clients, the price will come first and then quality. For those that want photographs by the kilogram, with thousands and thousands of photos, there will always be enough “photographers” to satisfy this demand. In other words, that’s a “visual scrap”, because most of the times, these photos are deleted.
CO – Talking about commercial photography, do you think it is a particular type of photography? Do you need special equipment, special lenses, lights, a space?
AS – The lack of a studio couldn’t stop me. On the contrary, I find it a challenge. For example, for Heren, I photographed the bowl I mentioned before, somewhere in a village. I had no lights back then because I sold them. So I kept thinking what should I do and I realized that I could easily solve the problem. Because no one had such huge soft box like I did that day. It was a cloudy day, so it was just fine for photography. So I placed the bowl on a white paper and I simply loved the final result. The same happened with a photograph made for a bank. I received the assignment through an advertising agency. I had to photograph a product for the bank, and when to take the pictures, I realized that we had a problem with the power – we had no current. So I had to improvise. To make things even harder, the guys from the agency were actually good in the technical part of photography and studio equipment. They even admired one of the test photos made for the same product and asked me to apply the same lighting procedure, so that the soft box is visible in the reflection.
CO – And how did you work it out?
AS – I went outside, climbed on a garaje and using a reflecting surface and some papers, I got an even better photo than the original one, made in the studio, with professional lights.
CO – I got the idea with the reflectors and papers. But how did you get the reflection of the softbox in the product?
AS – I found a large, white, Plexiglas board and used it as a soft box. The guys from the agency were thrilled with the result and said that it looked even better than the first attempt. So I replied that it was quite expected, since the initial photo was only a test.
CO – So problems can appear…
AS – Yes, absolutely. It depends on how quick and creative you solve them. Because in commercial photography it’s all about the result. No one’s asking you how you got that result, as long as it fits or exceeds the expectations.
CO – That’s correct! Furthermore, considering that there are a lot of myths concerning commercial photography. One of these myths is that you need a lot of photo equipment to do the job. Can you give us an example to contradict this? And how you can manage without any expensive gear…
AS – Sure. One example could be Estee Lauder (www.esteelauder.com), for whom I used to do, up to a point, all kinds of photo stories. Until one day, when they saw some pictures made by me, and they loved them and asked me to do that kind of photography for them as well. So they gave me five perfumes to shoot on a large format. And that was a problem, since my camera was on a small film, and they wanted large formats, 6 by 6. So I began wondering where I could find such a camera. And while going home by bus, with the five perfumes, I remembered an old man that had a small photo shop at the outskirts of Budapest. And I also recalled him having some old cameras, for decoration. And among those cameras, he had an old, wooden and leather camera. An old, large format camera, old since the world war, used by photo reporters. So I paid him a visit and told him I needed that camera. He laughed at me, but he gave it to me. So I went straight home and did the setting for the perfumes, in my kitchen. I used halogen lamps, white paper to soften the light and I even got some nice effects in the perfumes, by placing my business card on the back of the glass, so that it formed a nice stylish S shape in the end of the perfume’s name – Intuition. I took the film to be processed and and delivered the photos. It was an interesting contract and the rewards fit the effort. I got paid, back in ’98, the equivalent of 100 Euros for each photo.
CO – Not bad! And you also had fun finding creative solutions. The idea is that you can get good results with almost any gear. Of course, with imagination and determination.
AS – Reasons such as the lack of sophisticated cameras, or lack of triggers and lights, are all cheap excuses. When in fact, the only explanation is you being lazy. Of course it is a lot easier with the right equipment, yet many times it is the lack of it or being poor that makes you creative.
CO – Digital versus film. Obviously, digital has its advantages. On the other hand, it has a great disadvantage. Because no one is thinking as much about the final result as it did back in the film days.
AS – When you work on film, with each shot you take, you feel a sting. In your pocket. Something pinches you. And when you trigger a lot of shots, without thinking before, it stings even stronger. And you risk moving the camera. But if you think before, you learn. And from a 36 camera roll you can learn more that from thousands of photos taken with a digital camera. Of course, exceptions can occur.
CO – How did you end up working with Elite? Did they contact you or you did?
AS – I did. It’s an interesting story. During my military stage, I worked as an assistant for a photographer, in a hospital. My task was to photograph all sorts of moments, surgeries, from the hospital. I used to help one doctor to document his work, for some publications. A new challenge this hospital photography, because all the details had to be seen, and blood was highly reflective. So working in that hospital, I had enough time to think of other types of photography. So I began searching for other collaborations. I thought that I would really love to work as a photographer for a magazine, to do the cover photos. That would have really been an accomplishment!
CO – So what did you do?
AS – I began by seeking the most renowned magazines. I went one day to a magazine shop and looked over the Elite Magazine. I didn’t buy it, because I didn’t have the money, I just browsed it, right there. I copied the address and the phone number and I called them. At first, they laughed at me when they heard my request. I didn’t give up and paid them a visit, armed with a portfolio made up of fashion and models photography. Well, pictures of some girls that I shot for the portfolio. When I arrived there, they asked me why haven’t I called before. I said I did and someone told me to visit them. So they asked me to take a seat and they asked someone to look at my portfolio. After she took a look, she said it’s ok and that I should go home and expect their call. I already knew the text “don’t call us, we’ll call you” so, after a week, I visited them again. I knocked on the door and asked if they called me, motivating that I had an unknown call.
They replied that they did’n call me but, since I’m already there, they have a task for me, for the next day. I was a fashion presentation and they asked me if I was interesting in photographing it. Obviously, I said I am (interested).
Back in those days I used to earn around 3500 Hungarian Forint (HUF), for the job in the hospital. Therefore, my biggest concern was how would I do with the task I received, in order to buy the film, to process it… But the magazine took care of these aspects. The lady that told me about the fashion presentation told me to go next door to an assistant that would give me the money for that event. And I received with only a signature, 20000 HUF in cash. That’s nearly 6 times what I earned in a month. I felt like a millionaire. So I went straight to a photo store to get some films. I bought several films, both 400 and 800 iso. I managed to borrow an old, manual flash and went for the presentation. I took several photos and felt that something wasn’t right. And since the presentation lasted for several hours, I ran to the nearest photo store and processed the film. I processed the 400 iso and saw that the photos weren’t ok. So I went back to the presentation, used the 800 and the photos turned out just fine. I delivered the photos and they loved them. They even placed my name on them. And from that moment on, they kept calling me, every two weeks, for different events. And after a while, they suggested we should do some collaboration, with me as a student. So I received each month 8000 HUF plus expenses. After 8 months they hired me, with salary and benefits. And every six months, they gave me a raise plus all kinds of benefits and also paid for some of the studio. And it’s there that I learned what quality photography means. I learned a lot from other photographers, that worked with large cameras, such as Mamiya. I did the same with Playboy Magazine. I did the first step in contacting them.
CO – So it’s doable!
AS – Of course it is! You just have to know what you want and enjoy what you’re doing. That is, photography!
CO – Because may young photographers are afraid to take initiative. And they prefer to postpone. They are probably thinking “how can I approach a popular magazine, how can I go to them?…”
AS – By bus! In fact, it’s all about the way you see things. There is this nice joke on this theme. A joke with a rabbit that needs a ladder. So he thought about who could give him what he needed, and the bear came to his mind. So he went for the bear’s house and, while walking, he thought about the bear and the fact that he is such a money grubber. He takes a few more steppes and things of the bear again and that he’ll probably refuse to give him the ladder. And when he finally arrives on in front of the bear’s door, he rings and when the bear answers, he says: “You know what? Keep your ladder! I don’t need it anymore!”
Unfortunately, some photographers do think this way. That they don’t stand a chance, so they don’t even bother trying. To be frank, it is easier to sit tight and do nothing.
CO – Let’s go on. How long does it take you from the idea to the final result?
AS – It depends a lot on the request. Most of the times, if I have an idea, I do it. I don’t like to postpone. If I postpone my ideas when they appear, I probably end up not doing them anymore. Each idea is valuable as long as it is done. The rest doesn’t matter. That’s why I liked the time when I lived and worked in Budapest, in the studio. If I had an idea at 2 o’clock in the morning, I did it. I was right in the studio and everything was at hand. I didn’t postpone it for the next day. I took the pictures, I processed the film, enhanced the photos and, by the time the Sun rose, I was done with the idea.
CO – How many shots do you take until you are satisfied?
AS – I now use a digital camera, so it’s different from film. It depends a lot on the theme. If it’s my idea and I know what I want to get, one photo can be enough. But if it’s something from sports, things change, because you stand little chance to get it right from the first shot. Or with a single photo. But when I can control the situation and the conditions, one photo can be enough. Because I think everything ahead (composition, framing, lights).
CO – Just how important is the model in commercial, fashion photography?
AS – A lot! For instance, in New York, I met a professional model that otherwise would have gone unnoticed if I saw her on the street. I usually worked 3-4 hours on a photo shoot with models. With her, one and a half hours was enough. And that including make up. But that was all her.
CO – Is the relationship with the model important?
AS – Very important. More than anything matters establishing this relationship. Models that I worked with have had a great time and we developed a mutual trusting relation.
CO – I saw, unfortunately, many photographers that spend more time with the technical aspects than with the person they photograph.
AS – That’s wrong. In my opinion, the camera can be in your hand, but you’ll start taking good photos only when you’ll stop worrying about it and it will become an extension of your hand. And the technical part to become something natural, almost automatic. Things will get better when the technical aspects won’t bother you anymore.
CO – Is it more about the technical aspects or experience?
AS – Personally, I’m only interested in 3 or 4 aspects in terms of technical, and I solve them fast: aperture, white balance, time and iso. That’s about all.
CO – How much is Photoshop in your final photo?
AS – I can’t avoid Photoshop, for it has become the photo lab, the equivalent of the dark room. What I used on film years ago I now use on digital. For instance, if I now use in Photoshop a soft filter, I use it in the same way I did back with film and I placed on my Mamiya lens some hose. I don’t do any significant changes. Only a small cosmetic, if needed.
CO – In other words, you enhance the photo, without changing it.
AS – Right! The changes I make don’t alter the photo nor make it unnatural.
CO – Before we end this interview, if you were to give some advice to a starting photographer, or to a photographer that wants to do commercial photography, what would you say?
AS – To a photographer in general? Or to a commercial one?…
CO – Well, the first steps.
AS – The first step would be to get on that bus and go straight to the agency that he/she wants to work with. The most important thing is to actually do it. because nobody will take pictures for you, nor will it go and get a job for you. And you’ll might end up in the rabbit’s place. J
That’s the reason I started this photography association – Erke (www.erke.ro). I don’t want to offend anyone, but I saw many professors and “artist” photographers in universities, that speak about photography, without knowing photography. It is one thing to talk about photography and a whole different thing to actually do this.
CO – Especially in an area where visual is everything. It is harder to believe if I don’t see it.
AS – Another problem is that everyone talks about photography. Photography is not to be discussed, is to be done. The idea is to be better than others not with commentaries, but with what you do. And when you can do something better than others, you can start giving advice. Like that saying “the more you learn, the more you realize that you know, in fact, less”. And if you follow this idea, you have all the chance to progress.
CO – Has it happen for a photographer to write to you and ask you something?
AS – Yes, a lot. And I always replied. Because I don’t have any secrets in terms of photography.
CO – I remember you saying that if a photographer wants you to teach him/her something, you tell him/her everything he/she wants to know; but if he/she wants to learn a lot, you tell him/her little by little, in case it is seriously interested in photography.
AS – Yes, because more and more want to see results fast. Right away. They get the camera and they already see themselves as photographers.
CO – Speaking o f that, when can you call yourself a photographer? It is clear that simply owning a camera doesn’t make you a photographer. Best case scenario, you are the proud owner of a camera. Same as with a car. Owning a car doesn’t make you a driver, or a good driver.
AS – The key word, I believe, is experience. Personally, I don’t consider myself a photographer. Or a good photographer. And that’s not modesty. I simply know where I’m at and what others do. And there are a lot of good photographers. Of course there will always be worse photographers (than me). It depends on who are you comparing with.
CO – Does talent matter? Can we talk about that in photography? Or, can you do good photography without talent?
AS – You can learn the technical part of it. But in order to take great photos, you have to have the sense for it. That certain “something”. There was a photographer that said, at the beginning of his career, that in order to be successful, you need 50% talent, 30% ambition and 20% luck. Somewhere at the middle of his career, things slightly changed: 40% talent, 40% ambition and 20% luck. And towards the end of his career, the percentage changed again – in order to be successful, you need 20% luck and 80%… chance.
CO – What can you tell us, in the ending, about the Level 6 studio? www.level6.ro
AS – The studio has many directions. First of all, I opened it because I’m a professional. Photography can be done in the kitchen, but when it’s possible, a studio is recommended. The space I chose for Level 6 is large, so you can have two photo session at the same time. So one purpose is for business. And the other is to offer a meeting space for Erke, the photography association I mentioned before. Here we have our meetings and also here the photographers can see and work in a professional studio. The gear is quite expensive to invest from the beginning. So a good alternative is to rent the space and the studio, whenever needed.
CO – Thank you and “good lighting”.
AS – Thanks. Good luck to you too!
Attila Soos (www.level6.ro)
Marius Groza, Camera Obscura
Sebastian Vaida, Camera Obscura
Attila Soos is a very good example how a hard working enthusiastic photographer can become an appreciated and well known professional photographer. Congratulations Attila!